it looks like shut down (voluntarily - due to concerns about legal responsibilities in the uk). so if you were on ninetailed, or following people there, that's what happened.


mastodon instances only live as long as the owner/admin is interested in running them - and often running these types of things for a public audience is pretty thankless. idk, if you're on one of the bigger public or semi-public instances, thank your admin is pretty low-maintenance right now, and it costs very little to run. but that's because we have like 10 users and only half of those are active

@wolfteeth is practically free so far. It'd take a lot of load before it got financially expensive. I'm hoping it never becomes non-financially expensive.

@tek mine is hosted on aws so it could theoretically get pricy over time, but i'll cross that bridge when i get to it.

@wolfteeth Thanks admins, also collective-hosted-instances make sense, so admins can stop while the service can carry on.

@webmind @wolfteeth Doesn't collective hosted instances go against de-centralization?

@Admin @wolfteeth no, why? it's a federated model, federations often consist of multiple people, this can apply to admins as well.

@webmind @Admin i'm guessing you mean like an organization owns the instance instead of having all the responsibility on one individual?

@webmind @wolfteeth I think a long term solution could be micropayments. If I look at the instance I am on, the admin is looking for $500 monthly via patreon. If you divide that by the number of members, it comes down to $0.0135 per month per member. I can not imagine that people wouldn't be willing to pay 10 to 25 cents per month for keeping these services ad-free, decentralised(-ish) and privacy friendly, if there would just be a way to do that.

@wolfteeth @webmind @Admin
I am also a bitcoin enthusiast, so my hope is that bitcoin will solve the problem with micropayments in the near future. There are so many other services I would happily pay for, rather than be a product to be sold. Imagine what that could do for open source projects! Or content creators! I have a dream, a dream of an ad-free internet!
Sorry, got a little carried away there... 😊

@TheRealMe @wolfteeth @Admin Funny I guessed the bitcoin bit from your previous post :)

@TheRealMe, I agree with you about the ad-free internet based on micropayments, but there's a limit to what ppl can pay in total. Plus, in developing countries some genuinely can't afford it, and for them a free internet is critical. There's an anti-democratic side to the idea, then, and it's hard to solve. Maybe some could contribute voluntarily and make it free for others. But would it be sustainable?@wolfteeth @webmind @Admin

@fredmbarros @wolfteeth @webmind @Admin That's why I wrote the $0.1 to $0.25 amount. The amount needed per member was only $0.0135. I personally would be willing to pay more than a dollar a month, knowing that I would make it free for a couple of people who can afford it (what's the point of a social media platform if you're the only one that uses it, right?).

@fredmbarros @TheRealMe @wolfteeth @Admin

The problem there I think lies in that an equal division of the cost is a fair division. I would suggest a transparent and donation based system. People who have less to spent can then pay less or nothing and those who can afford more, can pay more. We do not live in a world where everyone has the same resources after all.

@webmind @fredmbarros @wolfteeth @Admin I am not saying micropayments is "the solution that solves everything". But I do think it will offer a lot of solutions that are not possible in the current system. Is it ideal? No. Is it better than what we have right now? Hell yes!

@TheRealMe @fredmbarros @wolfteeth @Admin

what is what 'we have now' for you? I'm seeing donation based hosting collectives, that sounds quite sweet to me.

@webmind @fredmbarros @wolfteeth @Admin What we have now are patreon accounts, which first of all involve cc companies or paypal, which take a pretty hefty cut out of the amount. And we have a really small number of people donating high amounts. If a couple of those decide to stop their donations, you're in trouble It's not terrible, but I wouldn't call it pretty it "quite sweet".

@TheRealMe @fredmbarros @wolfteeth @Admin

also, we also have donation based systems. and personal systems. If there are no micropayment ones, nice addition. Just saying the current system is not all crap.

@webmind @fredmbarros @wolfteeth @Admin True. But this thread (or at least my part in it) kinda started with the idea "how can we make decentralized systems sustainable in the long run". As is, it works. But it depends heavily on the generosity of a very small number of people or an admin with deep pockets.

@TheRealMe @webmind @wolfteeth @Admin a while ago I started looking for payment/tipjar platforms which aren't closed/proprietary. Do you know of good options?

@fredmbarros @webmind @wolfteeth @Admin I have no idea... My angle is cryptocurrencies, and right now everybody is waiting for protocol changes (segwit) that would make micropayments feasible on bitcoin (lightning network). August 1st is an important date, could be we have a decision by then.

@TheRealMe @webmind @wolfteeth @Admin but regarding cryptocurrencies then, what would you suggest for adding something like a tip jar to my website?

@TheRealMe @webmind @wolfteeth @Admin I think there's a strong culture of not paying and it is nurtured *in part* by the sensation that stuff is free on the internet. So, it is important to raise awareness about the "if it is free you're the product" thing. Of course people around here are very much aware of it, but this should be common sense to everyone, and it in fact is not. Then people would start thinking about paying.

@webmind @TheRealMe @wolfteeth @Admin that's precisely what I think. A fair division maybe would be that those who can pay more pay more for it.

@fredmbarros @wolfteeth @webmind @Admin I am a big fan of making contributions voluntary. If the service you provide is good (like Mastodon) there will be people who'd be willing to pay (just check the patreon accounts). I just don't like (recurring) credit card payments.

@fredmbarros @wolfteeth @webmind @Admin Plus, another thing about micropayments is that it also makes it easier for internet users to get paid for content they create (check,, and This would enable people from all over the world to make some money, lowering the threshold.

@TheRealMe @wolfteeth THe instance I'm on will be working on a donation-based model, which I quite like :)

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